Congratulations. You have chosen a great city with good climate, next to the Mediterranean sea, washed of sunlight, with the healthy Mediterranean diet and with nice people :-)
So, are you sure you know everything about coming to study in Barcelona? I repeat: do you know EVERYTHING? I ask this because many Erasmus students are not well informed by their universities about the linguistic reality of Catalonia. Indeed, one of the main things that shocks a foreign student is the unexpected and unknown language they should get on with in order to move around the city with not too much problems: the Catalan language.
Although Barcelona (and in extension, Catalonia) belongs to Spain in an administrative sense, it does not belong to Spain in a cultural sense. Catalonia's language is not Spanish, but Catalan. Of course Catalans know Spanish, but if you come to Barcelona, you'll find that everything is in Catalan language: traffic signs, information panels (unless they are for tourists) or shop signs. However, don't panic: you will always find someone to ask in case you don't understand something. Regarding to University, you will find no problems with burocratic issues like enrollment, scholarship requests, etc... However Catalan universities give their classes mainly in Catalan language (unless Master or PhD courses that may be done in other languages). Only a small part of the classes are repeated in Spanish version for students from abroad, specially from Spain, and here it is when the conflict arises: what happens if you come to study in Barcelona thinking that knowing Spanish is enough and you apply to a group that gets their classes in Catalan language? That was the case of a good friend of mine. In the first class day he was shocked of what kind of language the teacher was speaking in. Well, he knew it was Catalan but he couldn't understand a word from the lesson. After some minutes, my friend asked the teacher for giving the class in Spanish. Hundreds of eyes looked at him while the teacher said that there were other groups that got classes in Spanish language. My friend said that he made a mistake during the application and accidentally applied to the Catalan version class, so the teacher asked people if there was any problem in giving the class in Spanish. Although there was a clear disappointment in the air, people said there was no problem, and then the teacher went on giving the lesson in Spanish. I must say though that I've seen other cases in which the language was not changed despite the request of the foreign student.
What I want to say is that the information an Erasmus student receives from his/her local university is often incomplete. My friend quickly got on with Catalan language and soon he was able to fully understand classes in Catalan; he later said to me that he understood people's disappointment during the first class day. He said it is natural for a country to have its own language and if he had been informed before coming to Barcelona that Catalan was so important, he would had learned it.
A 40% of Catalans use Catalan as their primary language, whereas a 57% use Spanish (the remaining 3% use other languages).The reason of this unbalanced percentages is that during last 300 years Spain has attempted to anhilate Catalan language, which was legalized again 30 years ago. During Franco's fascist dictatorship (1939-1975) speaking Catalan in public was severely punished an today Spanish courts still ban any possibility of Catalan language to gain its fair acknowledgement status. Where Catalan language is clearly used by most of the Catalans is in higher relationship levels: for dealing with Catalan administration, banks, cultural institutions, universities, etc... Spanish has somehow settled as the language of the street, where people from many places mingle, specially in neighbourhoods with high Spanish immigration rates.
So, if you plan to come to do the Erasmus programme in Barcelona (or whatever city or town in Catalonia) consider learning Catalan. Otherwise you may find yourself in difficult or uncomfortable situations. You don't have to worry about being understood in Spanish, since all Catalans do speak it, but you'll see that if you make an effort in learning Catalan you will feel more "accepted". What would you think about an immigrant that comes to your country and makes an effort in speaking your language? Well, Catalans will think the same about you!
Some Catalan language related resources:
Nice post...However a little late for me! :-D I spent my Erasmus days some time ago in Lleida (province of Catalonia) and certainly knowing Catalan language is essential. Catalans are proud of their own culture and language (what country isn't?) and, although the Spanish constitution says that Catalan is co-oficial with Spanish ("co-oficiality" is a symetric concept, meaning that Spanish and Catalan should enjoy equal rights), the reality is that Spanish has a better status by law. I must say though that Catalan people struggle to make Catalan language achieve what, by law, cannot do: to have a status of national language. My days in Lleida were awesome: nice people, nice food, nice climate...I already knew about Catalan to be spoken in Catalonia but I never thought it was so important. We, foreigners, have some misconceptions about Spain. We automatically think "Spain's language is Spanish" but it is actually not fully true. Hopefully I found nice people that helped me learning Catalan in few months (at least for understanding it) and I should say that, as another romance language, it is very similar to other ones: Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, French, Italian...all of them have similar vocabulary and grammar. So my advice to people wanting to do their Erasmus in Catalonia is to start learning Catalan: it will make life easier and you'll feel fully integrated (as this blog says, Catalans admire foreigners that struggle to learn their language).
ReplyDeleteIf you want to give information, give sound information. Catalonia belongs to Spain in all senses, at least a great deal of Catalans think so, more than the opposite, even though they may also feel distinct, or special.
ReplyDeleteThe horror movie you paint about language is nothing but a movie. I recently read an interview with Amparó Baró (Catalan actress) where she remembered her times playing at Paralelo Theatre (Barcelona) in Catalan in the 50's and 60's (that's under Franco), and labeled what you say (sadly frequent) as fantasy and propaganda.
About legal status, you can (and you surely will) get fined for labeling your shop's products in Spanish, official language in Catalonia - in all Spain.
When Albert Rivera, a regional MP, spoke for the first time in the parliament he was booed and MPs left just because he used Spanish to start his speech. He's from a party that demands EQUAL rights for Catalan and Spanish speakers. Apparently, that's too fascist.
It's funny. You are defining "sound information" as the opinion given by Amparo Baró, who is clearly biased toward Spanish ideas. Why should her opinion be "sound information"?
ReplyDeleteFirst, I am not telling a horror movie, but reality. During Franco's dictatorship Catalan language was strictly forbidden. Only during the last decade before Franco's death some public shows could be performed in Catalan, but always under the control of Franco's censors.
On the other hand, before creating the Citizen's Party, Albert Rivera was a member of the conservative People's Party (PP). PP derives from "Alianza Popular", a well-known fascist party which still has among their members a Franco's minister.
Finally, in Catalonia nobody is fined for labeling the shop's products in Spanish. So, before lying, stroll around Barcelona or any city of Catalonia and you will find lots of shops having their products labelled in Spanish. You even won't have to leave the airport to check this.
In Catalonia, co-officiality of Spanish and Catalan languages is a complete fake. Spanish Constitution states that Catalan and Spanish are co-official in Catalonia, which means that all citizens have the RIGHT to speak and to be spoken in whatever language. However there are many people unable to understand Catalan, specially those coming from Spanish-speaking regions and countries. If Catalan and Spanish are co-official, a Spanish student coming to study in Catalonia should not hope to make a entire university or school to change the language of their classes or of their learning materials, if they are written in Catalan. As an Italian friend of mine says : "it is unbelievable a Spaniard comes to Catalonia without learning some Catalan whereas I could be able to learn both Spanish and Catalan at the same time before coming to Barcelona".
There's no possible bias in a fact... It's true, or it isn't. Even in Wikipedia you can check it: "Obras de teatro: No és mai tard... si s'arriba d'hora (1957)" (Amparo Baró page at es.wikipedia).
ReplyDeleteYou call a party voted by over 10 million people in Spain fascist. No words. Furthermore, he didn´t even belong to PP. He says he went to meetings from that party, as well as he went to others from Socialistes en Positiu (anti-nacionalist centre-left).
How can you deny the fining of traders? It's notorious... One example. Uhm, I forgot to mention the running is through anonymous complaints. The archetypal system of a totalitarian state.
Ian, since I see you like Wikipedia, I cut-paste a fragment about the language politics under Franco's dictatorship in Spain. I put in capital letters some important facts about them: "In Francoist Spain (1939–1975), the use of Spanish in place of Catalan was promoted, and public use of Catalan was initially REPRESSED and DISCOURAGED by official propaganda campaigns. The use of Catalan in government-run institutions and in PUBLIC EVENTS was BANNED. During later stages of the Francoist regime, certain FOLKLORIC or religious celebrations in Catalan were RESUMED and TOLERATED. Use of Catalan in the mass media was initially FORBIDDEN, but was PERMITTED from the early 1950s in the THEATRE. Publishing in Catalan continued throughout the dictatorship [often underground]. There was no OFFICIAL prohibition of speaking Catalan in public or in commerce [despite the fact that fascist groups acted with total impunity], but all advertising and signage had to be in Spanish ALONE, as did all written communication in business". In other words, during the second stage of Franco's dictatorship Catalan had the fantastic priviledge to be used as a folkloric, useless or second-class language.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I haven't said PP is a fascist party; I've said it derives from a fascist party of which preserves some clear ancient ideas of how Spain must be. Anyway, today it is not strange to see right-wing parties with some sort of fascist background getting support from people, not only in Spain, so I'm not making foolish remarks.
Regarding to Albert Rivera's preferences, you are freely taking a version of the two possible (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2006/11/22/espana/1164203240.html). I have no more to say about it.
Finally, read carefully what you wrote in your last comment: "you get fined for labeling your shop's products in Spanish". Now read the title of the link you have attached: "300 traders protest over fines imposed for not labelling their goods in Catalan". See the difference? You are NOT fined to label your products in Spanish, because Spanish is not forbidden at all. The law says that goods must be labeled AT LEAST in Catalan language. Why? Simply because Catalonia's historically traditional language is Catalan, and this is approved every 4 years by the majority of Catalans that vote, not to Spanish parties such as PP or Ciudadanos, but to Catalan parties (not necessarily independentist or nationalist parties) like CIU, ERC, ICV or PSC. All of these latter parties agree that Catalan language has historically been and must go on being the primary language of Catalonia, as English is for UK or Italian is for Italy.
When man is about to extinct some sort of animal species, he does his best to preserve and promote its existence. Catalan has been in danger since the XVIIIth century due to Spanish politics. Now it is fair to let it recover its deserved status.
Finally, I paste a piece of a document from the Spanish royalty's archive:
"Since it seems Nature has given to each Nation its own language, this [to impose Spanish] will take some time to achieve, above all when the temper of the Nation of Catalans is persistent, proud and lover of all things of their Country. So it is worthy to take precaution and to give disguised instructions in order to achieve the goal without drawing the attention to it." - José Rodrigo de Villalpando - Attorney General of the Council of Castilla - 1715.
Well, if you don´t see the difference between quoting Wikipedia for facts (theatre plays, with play's name, actors, theatre...) and quoting an opinion writing (no facts on it)...
ReplyDeleteFinally, read carefully what you wrote in your last comment: "you get fined for labeling your shop's products in Spanish". Now read the title of the link you have attached: "300 traders protest over fines imposed for not labelling their goods in Catalan". See the difference?
Sure I see the difference! You say the propaganda and I say the actual implications. They obviously can't say they're gonna forbid Spanish labeling (which was the prevailing, as it's the language almost 100% of the people know, not like Catalan), they just demand to label in Catalan in the hope of traders will avoid to double-label (to economize) and they'll start to label just in Catalan, which is the aim. Why do you have to tell them in which language they have to label? Don´t they know? If they do it in Japanese, and they have no Japanese clients, they will fail (by the way, you have no prblems if you do it only in Urdu or Chinese, in Catalonia. Problems will arise if you do it in Spanish). Just let them free, but nationalism and freedom are opposites.
When man is about to extinct some sort of animal species, he does his best to preserve and promote its existence
If a language isn´t spoken, it's because people, freely, don't want to. If Catalan was "in danger", as you say, it would an argument against you -you can´t compare that with animal species (it's a comparison as usual as pointless)-. It's all about freedom of choice, something you can´t and don´t want to understand.
This discussion is leading us nowhere, so regarding to the myth that Spanish labelling is forbidden in Catalonia, I will take some pictures of many shops throughout Barcelona that have their displays and labels only written in Spanish and do not suffer any kind of repression. And do not forget that people's rights prevail over rights of businesses, so citizens from Catalonia have the RIGHT to be attended BOTH in Spanish and in Catalan. I advice you to come to spend some days in Barcelona to check I will not trick the pictures.
ReplyDeleteFinally, it is very easy to talk about freedom after having repressed a language for more than 300 years. It is like cutting somebody's tongue and then tell him he is free to speak. Spaniards always talk about Catalan, Basque or even Gallician nationalisms, but they never talk about Spanish nationalism. This is something you can't and don't want to understand.
Don't contradict yourself: do citizens have the legal right to be attended in blah blah blah (that is, not freedom of enterprise) or do traders not suffer consequences?
ReplyDeleteIf you don´t suffer any repression labeling only in Spanish, why do they get fined? Is it all bullshit?
I'm not a nationalist, so I don´t have to regret a thing about anything; you are, so you do.
There's no contradiction in my words. Summarizing: citizens from Catalonia have the right to be attended in Catalan and Spanish. Therefore enterprises must have their products labeled in both languages or,at least in Catalan,which is the original language of Catalonia. SONY,IKEA or any other company must do so, as they do in other countries. Otherwise it would be enough to label the products just in English, known worldwide. Enterprises being fined are a minority and they are often created by people suffering catalanophobia. Catalan needs positive discrimination after so many years of repression. And yes, you are a Spanish nationalist because you are unable to admit this repression. Actually Spaniards thinking like you are the ones causing conflict. In Catalonia people having problems with Catalan are often Spanish speakers. Before talking about freedom, consider what are the original conditions a culture and language have started from in order to have the same chances of freedom. I have no more to say 'cause we are entering an endless loop. Regards.
ReplyDelete"the original language of Catalonia", nice concept. Was it the first language spoken there? A land in Europe only inhabited for a thousand years, at most...
ReplyDeleteIf you want to look at the past, you'll have to look at all the languages spoken there once (quite ridiculous, I think). If you mean the present, Spanish is the language that most Catalans know and speak. Looking for another is just a desire for separating, differentiating. Nationalism. Something that most of Europeans know that never brought no good.
Of course Catalan was not the first language spoken in Catalonia, but it is the last one still alive. The Spanish trend in trying to annihilate all languages different than Spanish is frequent. For example, the Catalan government has allowed the Occitan-speaking area of Vall d'Aran (north-west of Catalonia) to have Aranese as the primary language, above Catalan and Spanish. Of course, Spanish parties are against this law because, again, goes against the goal of homogenizing language. Spain a multicultural country? This is really bullshit propaganda. Europe has repeatedly approved and supported the linguistic model of Catalonia, so don't be demagogue. We are not talking about separating (that's another subject) but recovering something that Spanish nationalism has tried to destroy so many times. Yes, Europe knows very well what nationalisms are, and sure they know what was the nationalism imperating in Spain during the last century. Catalan nationalism will never cause deaths and will never put somebody into prison to speak other languages different than Catalan. Spanish nationalism did.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Catalan nationalism was always so peaceful... Terra Lliure were Aragonese, or Byzantine. Sure.
ReplyDeleteHaha, nice try...I knew you would mention "Terra Lliure"... Please tell me how many people were killed by this group. I'll tell you: only ONE, and the most stupid: by accident. This fact actually made the group to abandon its activism 4 years later. "Terra Lliure" was like many other groups around the world that go against the system and it made injuries to public buildings that represented the Spanish state. Yes, they also kidnapped people, but they always were set free. Of course I am not approving "Terra Lliure"'s actions, but comparing "Terra Lliure" to Franco is like comparing an amateur fascist group to Hitler. The leading nationalist Catalan party (CIU) has nothing to do with terrorism nor violent actions and it bets for a peaceful nationalism. Anyway, I achieved what I wanted: to open your eyes to let you see you are a deep Spanish nationalist that tries to find the devil among Catalans ;-)
ReplyDeleteAgain, please visit Catalonia and check yourself nobody will criticize you for speaking in Spanish. Furthermore, if you go to a restaurant and you cannot understand the menu 'cause it is in Catalan, be calm! We have fantastic translated menus in Spanish, English, French, Dutch and even Chinese languages! Awesome, isn't it?
I didn´t compare Terra Lliure to nothing. Terra Lliure were Catalan and terrorists, period. The thing you said it was impossible. I won´t defend Franco in any way. I'm a liberal and refuse any kind of authoritarianism or totalitaranism.
ReplyDelete"Devil"? Don´t project your infantilizing views about language, nation, etc. I usually talk to Catalans (some of them independentists, but not so childish), I don´t think of no devils. I know it's not the Catalan people the problem, but politicians and a small portion of radical people (well subsidized, by the way). That's precisely my point.
PS: I've been in Catalonia (Pallars Sobirà), that's another thing you nationalists always say. Do they give to you a prepared text or something? ;) I read Catalan, and know to pronounce it, it's not a matter of hatred, I mean it.
Yes, when Catalans are born they are usually equipped with a "Catalan User's Guide" which instructs us how we must behave during our lives, you know: things like "you must hate Spain ´de facto´", or "Catalans are Gods"... ¬¬ The funny thing is that I come from a Spanish family, not from a "pure" (stupid word) Catalan family, so I have not grown with such User's Guide. I simply have eyes and ears, and I see my family has been able to open a little music shop in Catalonia without having such big problems. That terrible reality you are describing against Spanish language is simply fiction.
ReplyDeleteCheers.
I'm telling to you I don´t think all the Catalans are like that, I told you that's my point.
ReplyDeleteYou know, at the casal. It has to be such a situation to be in one. With the tribe. Something like travelling to Amazon, but in Europe. Herriko taberna style.
Hi people!
ReplyDeleteI'm doing my research project about the Incoming Erasmus and I would be really grateful if you could help me with some personal stories about your experience here in Catalonia, specially in Barcelona.
I have written an interview to show which is the perspective of Catalonia from an Erasmus student's point of view. If you are interested in helping me out, my e-mail adress is sofia.reichl@gmail.com, write me if you want.
Thank you so much for your atention.
I read the exchange above, and it really makes me feel sad. There's no need to denigrate Spanish in order to support Catalan, and vice versa. What especially saddens me is Claudius' triumphal attitude in "making" Ian "admit" he is a "Spanish nationalist". Ian's comments make it sound that he is in favour of personal and linguistic freedom rather than a "nationalist" – in fact, he states explicitly that he is against "nationalism" of any kind as an ideology.
ReplyDeleteHaving lived here in Barcelona for the last seven years. having arrived with a positive and open view, I can say that the haranguing and hectoring tone of Catalan linguistic nationalism does it no favours. I arrived openminded and happy to learn, if anything predisposed towards Catalan, but have ended up feeling alienated by this nagging tone, the feeling that it's used to exclude not include, that speaking one language and not the other is somehow morally "better".
I believe that Catalans should be proud of their heritage with the Spanish language: it's a complex and rich relationship that has existed for hundreds of years. This bi-polar thinking, this "either-or" mentality just makes everyone a loser.
Hi Garret,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all we should remember that, unfortunately, when a culture of a nation that becomes a state is imposed over the culture of other nations within the same state, then the former becomes the one normal, rich and valid whereas the latter ones become annoying, folkloric or alternative. Hopefully we have enough historical data to proof that, in Spain, the fact that the kingdom of Castilla became the one that eventually dominated the territories of "Hispania" led to a trend of homogenizing language and national identity. There are documents that clearly proof that the Spanish kings and dictators gave several orders to ban and repress languages different to Spanish (Castillian), from XVIIIth to XXth century. Now you may think that past, past is. Actually, there are many languages that nobody speaks today nor identifies with them. The difference with Catalan, though, is that the latter is still alive and hardly bound to a people identity.
On the other hand, if I said to Ian that he is a Spanish nationalist, it's simply because he wishes a situation that clearly follows the trend I talked you about before. He doesn't know he is a nationalist because his nation has a state, with its own language and identity [NOTE: when I say Ian is a Spanish nationalist, I'm not saying that Ian is evil, but that he identifies himself with a people and culture]. Ian knows that Spanish and Catalan have not equal legal conditions and had not equal opportunities when democracy was set again in 1978. Giving by law a preference to Spanish to a detriment of Catalan invevitably condemns the latter to death. A language without a state is weak and that's why in Catalonia we have such a weird situation with too many conflicts. It's simple to catch it: imagine a man from Morocco comes to live in Catalonia. Since Catalonia is in Spain, he automatically perceives Catalan as some sort of secondary language and, above all, he will try to master Spanish in order to success in his businesses. "Catalonia is Spain, after all", he would think. This will lead him to face some difficulties with the language thus causing him frustration. His natural reaction is clear: "Catalans suck". It's obvious! He would naturally think WTF Catalans are obsessed in using Catalan if Spanish is the top official language? Conclusion: Catalans are closed-minded and exclude people. Funny. Try to go to live in France without speaking French and see what happens. Or better, try to live in Spain without speaking Spanish. What you will perceive from people is the same you perceived from Catalans. However you'll never live these experiences because if you go to France or to Spain, you will previously learn French or Spanish.
Look that I am not criticizing Ian's opinion in the sense of coherence. He, as Spanish, is completely coherent! Actually I completely agree with him. That is the problem in Catalonia: we have a national identity and language but we have no state (actually we are not allowed to have it, so far).
Finally, regarding to your last words, I'd like to say that , after all, in Catalonia everyone knows at least two languages: Catalan and Spanish. Knowing both provides us a rich phonetical and vocabulary diversity, making us easier to learn other romance languages like French or Italian. Nobody is talking about stop learning Spanish in Catalonia. The funny thing though is that the hypothetical-super-open-minded Spanish people only know at least one language, and don't even bother to learn any of the other languages in Spain: Catalan, Basque, Gallician, Aranese or others. That really is to be closed-minded.
Anyway, it's an endless discussion.
Ha estat un plaer.
Ha sido un placer.
It's been a pleasure.
Ça a été un plaisir.
"in Catalonia everyone knows at least two languages: Catalan and Spanish"
ReplyDeleteSay whaat? Go to Hospitalet or Cornellá and find somebody who speaks Catalan. Knowledge of Spanish in inner Catalonia, on the other hand, is quite deficient (the same happens in some areas of Basque Country or even Valencia).
"Try to go to live in France without speaking French and see what happens"
The obvious analogy is moving to Spain without speaking Spanish; Catalonia is Spain. In France there were a lot of regional languages back in the days. Now there's just French. Of course it's the only official language. It's not a model you'd like. I endorse Spanish as official and regional languages as co-officials in their regions -that's the supposed current model.
Ian...Don't be childish... Although Cornella an Hospitalet are villages having a high immigrant Spanish population, everybody learns Catalan at school. On the other hand I have no more to say. As I told in my previous post you are coherent with the Spanish nationalism. I gave the French example to emphasize why we must protect our language due to the fact that Catalonia currently belongs to the state of Spain.
ReplyDeleteRegarding to our Spanish level, if I were you I would be more worried about non Catalan Spanish children that, not only deal with only one language, but also have a low level of it.
But again, I understand you. Why we Catalans keep voting nationalist parties? Simply because we are a nation, like Spain. The difference is that Spain is also a state.
Cheers.
I work with Erasmus, and I completely agree with the original post. I believe Catalan does not suppose a real problem to anyone who comes here with an open mind, but it is true it might be shocking to figure it out on your first day if you haven't been told before. I believe this is very helpful for people wanting to come here. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I will beg you both to stop this discussion going on. I have my own opinion regarding the subject as well, but they are all OPINIONS and each one has a different view, and none will or should change his own to fit someone else's. And there is too much in this topic and it's not either black or white. Of course you will not agree...